Flash-grilled: Nina Matsunaga

Nina Matsunaga
Nina Matsunaga runs The Black Bull with her partner and front of house counterpart James Ratcliffe (©The Black Bull Sedbergh)

The German-Japanese chef-owner of The Black Bull Sedbergh, Tsuchi and The Three Hares Café on proper German Turkish kebabs, inefficiency and wanting to be a vet.

What was your first industry job?

The Walpole café in Ealing, which also became a bistro on weekends.

If you weren’t in kitchens, what would you do?

I always wanted to be a writer and a veterinarian. I imagined myself in a house surrounded by fields, with horses, donkeys, dogs and cats, writing my days away when I wasn’t operating on small animals.

What industry figure do you most admire, and why?

I admire anyone who practises kindness and thoughtfulness, not just in the kitchen but in everything they do. I haven’t come across the holy grail of a person yet. I’m constantly reading about people and techniques, but I’m also realistic about articles and descriptions.

What’s your pet hate in the kitchen?

I hate inefficiency. Call it my German-ness or Japanese-ness, but I don’t like people who dawdle or lose precious time through silly things. Small examples include walking past someone struggling instead of helping, or not picking up pots to return to the shelves on the way to the wash-up. It’s a tie between that and laziness. Don’t get me wrong, I’m lazy in some aspects. I love a shortcut when it makes sense, but I don’t like people who go out of their way to avoid doing something.

What’s the oddest thing a customer has said to you?

There are a few. People often come up to me, invade my personal space, and point to their face or mine while asking where I’m “actually” from. I still find that odd. I would never do that to someone.

Sum up your cooking style in a single sentence…

Even less, one word: eclectic.

What’s the worst review you’ve ever had?

My lasagne, which I put on for a bank holiday weekend beer fest, was compared to Tesco’s horse meat lasagne. I didn’t know what to say.

What advice would you give someone starting out in the industry?

Make sure you know what you’re getting into. It’s a rewarding industry, but it requires sacrifices. I’m not talking about abuse, just that younger people often get disillusioned.

Also, don’t quit after your first job. There’s a place in this industry for everyone. If one spot isn’t right, another might be.

Which single item of kitchen equipment could you not live without?

My Hobart mixer.

What would you choose to eat for your last meal?

I’d want everything. Pizza from Lupo Pizza in Germany, a proper German Turkish kebab, roast chicken and gravy, rice, and all the German butcher’s charcuterie.

It would be a collection of imprinted tastes, those first flavours that amazed me and have stayed with me since I was little.

À la carte or tasting menu?

Depends on my mood, but probably tasting. I like not having to think about what to order, and I enjoy seeing how other chefs’ minds work.

That said, if I’m at a pub after a walk, I love a pie. I’m not someone dainty. The pie is a great British staple, undervalued and not that common elsewhere in Europe.

What’s the best meal you’ve ever had in a restaurant?

I’ll tell you when I have it. Not out of arrogance, it’s just that the most memorable moments are often snippets. A piping hot congee on top of a fell after hours of walking. Frozen gummy bears on a school trip in the Dolomites. A lot of restaurants come close to perfection, but there’s always something missing.

What’s your favourite fast food joint?

I don’t really have one. I do like a 7-Eleven or FamilyMart in Japan. I live in the countryside, and we’ve only recently had a takeaway open. It’s not something I grew up with.

What’s the dish you wish you’d thought of?

Krakauer sausage wirsing stew, a German-Polish sausage, savoy cabbage and potato stew. It’s delicious, and it would be even better if I’d invented Krakauer sausages. Also, oyakodon, with the classic debate of which came first, the chicken or the egg. Kimchi – not a dish, but incredible. Or, if it has to be a dish, kimchi jjigae. I’m realising I’m very much a soup and stew person.

MasterChef or Great British Menu?

Great British Menu, and early-season MasterChef amateurs.

What’s the most overrated food?

Pulled BBQ pork. I love pork, but that’s one I don’t quite get.

You’re restaurant dictator for a day, what would you ban?

Tea towels on shoulders.

Who would your dream dinner party guests be?

No one. I’m not really a people person outside of work. I’m happy just feeding my little family.

What’s your earliest food memory?

The sting of soy sauce, burning all around my mouth. Closely followed by a fish bone stuck in my throat. I was, and still am, a greedy eater.

TikTok or Instagram?

Instagram. And I barely understand how that works.

What’s the closest you’ve ever come to death?

I’m generally quite cautious. Probably getting into a car with a drunk driver as a teenager, or falling off horses and being kicked by them as a child.

Where do you go when you want to let your hair down?

My sofa with a good book. Or screaming into the wind on top of a fell.

What’s your tipple of choice?

I don’t really drink anymore, but I like a grower’s Champagne, a good altbier, or, don’t tell Düsseldorf, a Kölsch. Otherwise, sparkling water or genmaicha.

What’s your favourite food and drink pairing (the more obscure, the better)?

Not necessarily my all-time favourite, but Waldmeister Schorle with a German cheese sandwich.

What do you consider to be your signature dish?

Any kind of tartare. Veg, meat, anything. I love the mix of crunch, raw textures, creaminess and spice; there are so many variations. I’m not sure I’m the kind of person who has a single signature dish. I always want to move forward, experiment and keep tinkering with things that already exist.